PS5 Jailbreaks Are Escalating at an Unprecedented Pace
pushsquare.com
[2 comments hidden]
That thought popped in my mind when I saw mac neo: laptop with the same chip that runs my iphone. But on mac I can install whatever I wish, and on iphone only what apple wishes?
I am hopeful that EU will headline this legislation sometime soon.
[hidden]
A jailbreak is similar to a root on Android. I think the EU is very happy to have us locked in by big tech unfortunately. They do enforce Apple to open up for other stores but I don't think they're going to go much further than that.
[16 comments hidden]
[4 comments hidden]
[10 comments hidden]
[hidden]
If I don't like the game, I can find someone else who will. I can easily let people borrow it. Etc. Much nicer than just a download for that.
[7 comments hidden]
Games are also exceeding triple-layer BluRay size now in many cases, and average internet speeds in the US are faster than BluRay transfer speeds. Since you've already had to install the games to internal storage since the PS3 at least (and the PS5 even has user m.2 SSD expansion), discs have just been an annoying extra step for a long time.
Also, online purchases are cheaper. Frequent sales happen, at steeper discounts than brick and mortar retailers ever have. Plenty of games were 50-75% off during the summer sale.
That being said, I've picked up a few on disc in recent years. It's a convenient way to share games in a household with multiple PlayStations and I've received some as gifts that way, since giving people a specific game as a gift in the physical world is still inconceivable to companies.
[3 comments hidden]
[hidden]
[hidden]
(Of course their profit margin is higher from digital which is why they're running anti disc marketing.)
I wish y'all would learn what % actually means and that it's meaningless without the denominator. And stop dismissing successful products because you found a way to munge %.
[hidden]
I'd be very careful about using those kinds of numbers to indicate what consumers what. Many PS5 consoles don't come with disk drives. The ones that don't were cheaper which increased their popularity. The numbers themselves are questionable after a leak showed first-party titles sold more physical copies than digital copies. https://en.gamegpu.com/news/igry/utechka-insomniac-raskryla-...
> Also, online purchases are cheaper. Frequent sales happen, at steeper discounts than brick and mortar retailers ever have.
This has not be my experience at all. Steam sales can be very cheap. The prices on the playstation store are high and tend to stay high. Retail (especially used games) prices are extremely cheap and every person who walks into a store pays the same price while the playstation store uses dynamic prices so one person might get a great deal, but if Sony thinks they can squeeze you for more money your price for the identical game can be much higher. Zero price transparency makes price tracking and discount data unreliable.
[5 comments hidden]
[hidden]
[19 comments hidden]
"Piracy is a service problem" - Gabe Newell
[3 comments hidden]
[2 comments hidden]
Gabes point is thay the balance of the two is overwhelmingly; yes some pirates will always pirate. Most win prefer to buy the game if the terms are reasonable. Being smart enough to undetstand this and run his business accordingly is why Gabe owns yachts.
[hidden]
That's kind of like saying places that suffer from dine-and-dashers suffer from a service problem. I disagree.
Some services can sustain subsidization. Google can "give out" GMail, people will be happy to have the service for "free". Smaller players who can't subsidize their service(s) with ad platforms may have to either charge money or offer fewer features and recoup revenue via features.
Gabe has the breadth and resources to practice his economics -many others do too; however, many smaller or more focused players don't have that liberty. Obviously we have companies who go to extremes to ruthlessly extract as much as they can from their customers. They are obviously deserving of criticism --but not everyone who wants can play by Gabe's philosophy.
[15 comments hidden]
This quote has been taken too far out of context from the original talk, which is worth viewing.
He was saying that piracy can be reduced by making the product easily available. When it was easier to download a pirated version from home than to drive to the store and back and unwrap a physical CD, piracy was easier.
That is not true today. The easiest path is to buy the game digitally through the service on the device and play it directly. Pirating it is more work and harder to do.
So quoting Gabe Newell in support is wrong. Saying it’s a service problem is also wrong when the piracy route takes a lot more work. The goalposts keep moving around (and I’m sure they’ll move more in the replies) but we have to eventually admit that a lot of pirates are pirating because they don’t want to pay for the game. It’s the most obvious fact on this topic but the comments are always full of mental gymnastics pretending the pirates are noble people doing the right thing.
[3 comments hidden]
[3 comments hidden]
Could've sworn the original context was that he was referring to Russian piracy, where many of the games were not available there legally at the time, leaving piracy as the only recourse.
[2 comments hidden]
He was making a pitch for Steam in a different time where digital distribution was not a thing.
Now digital distribution is the baseline and availability and ease of use are in favor of not pirating, but his quote is taken out of context to justify piracy anyway.
[hidden]
For example, I can think of numerous instances in which people get pushed to piracy by, ironically, anti-piracy DRM software (e.g. Denuvo), which causes such inconvenience and performance degradation to the end-user that even if you have legitimately purchased the game, you will have a much better experience playing a cracked, DRM-free version of the game.
That would be a case where--for example--GOG might put forth their DRM-free versions of games as an example of how to successfully counter the "service" problem.
[7 comments hidden]
- pricing - for some kids some games are just too expensive, and they still want to play, and don't want to be left out;
- platform lock - this is more for emulation, where people don't want to buy a platform to play 1 or 2 IP;
I see Gabe's reference in both of those scenarios, because Steam always had good deals, while retailers didn't.
You might say: "in that case, some people are only willing to pay 0$ for a game, and they shouldn't have access to it."
While I understand it, I bet you a massive chunk of GTA V, RDR2, and soon GTA VI players that have available income now, had their first experiences with the series through piracy.
But I agree there's no nobility, just people that can't afford stuff, or don't value it enough to part with their money, but you can't assume they would be customers at the moment they get a copy.
[3 comments hidden]
This was me for a long, long time. I pirated games until I was into my late 20s simply because I couldn't afford to buy them. Now, with Steam, the idea of pirating a game is something I never think about.
[3 comments hidden]
Sorry, but that’s life. Saying something is too expensive but you still want it doesn’t change anything.
> - platform lock - this is more for emulation, where people don't want to buy a platform to play 1 or 2 IP;
How is this relevant? You can’t play a pirated PS5 game without buying a PS5.
This is just another variant of your argument above that people want things but don’t want to pay for them.
> but you can't assume they would be customers at the moment they get a copy.
You can’t assume that every pirate would not be a customer if they couldn’t pirate.
Which means the sales would be higher without piracy. Which means piracy hurts revenue. The rest is hand waving.
[hidden]
I can say the same. Other people don't accept the terms you do. Sorry, that's life.
[hidden]
And I'm not saying this to spite you, it comes from the same place, so much so there's a whole sub culture around it.
> You can’t assume that every pirate would not be a customer if they couldn’t pirate.
I never said that every pirate wouldn't be a customer, I'm saying the vast majority wouldn't be in the short term.
Of course I can't prove that in the long term, because what I know are anecdotes - but I'm pretty sure people develop nostalgia bonds with IP they pirated.
It would actually be an interesting study.
[hidden]
You cannot buy a game digitally. You can only rent a license. Once there are laws in place that enable me to sell a game I bought on Steam via ebay we can call it buying.
[12 comments hidden]
[hidden]
[9 comments hidden]
[6 comments hidden]
[hidden]
[hidden]
[2 comments hidden]
(I presume the picofly & similar devices are just doing this automatically so you can boot the hardware under user control without requiring other hardware to make the exploit work?)
[hidden]
[2 comments hidden]
And you could cheat with games by plugging Action Replay or Gameshark into the serial port which basically just fucked with the game's memory. I don't even know what the serial port was actually meant for.
[hidden]
The rarely-used Playstation Link cable, ostensibly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Link_Cable
Never used it myself, but it allowed a really weird first-person multiplayer mode in Bushido Blade:
[12 comments hidden]
[2 comments hidden]
Is this still true? PS5 price has gone up in the 5 years since release. I think there’s now a profit on every machine made, but Sony would like more money.
[4 comments hidden]
Sony prefers charging a tax on game sales that's high enough to recoup the cost of the hardware discount.
This means playstation owners are getting a discount on hardware, and then paying so much more for each game - to the point Sony prefers this because they get higher revenue than just selling the hardware at cost.
---
You are literally advocating for the worse model for yourself.
Jailbreaks don't ruin anything other than a "predatory loan" style arrangement.
Personally, I fail to see the problem.
[3 comments hidden]
[hidden]
You don't get a choice is the issue, more so this is hidden from the consumer that it's occurring.
If when you buy a PS5 you sign a contract saying that you're buying hardware below cost is one thing, but without that contract there is no binding agreement at the time of sale. Without this selling the hardware below cost and you paying for the games is just a really nice thing that Sony hopes happens.
[hidden]
This is decidedly untrue non-fungible item markets (ex - the market where you can only play Sony exclusives on a playstation).
> in markets for non-fungible goods - price formation and demand equilibrium do not rely on a single, continuous market-clearing price. Instead, they rely on discrete matching, asymmetric information, and social coordinates.
Basically - no. Fuck off. Sony is acting in their best interests with asymmetric information (ex - they know how much profit they make of those game sales and you don't, they know how much profit/loss they make from that playstation sale and you don't).
You know how we know? Because absolutely nothing is stopping you from still opting into a model where you don't pay costs up front.
> The problem is assuming everyone wants the hardware costs upfront model.
We have an absolutely smorgasbord of financial services that would LOVE to let you pay over time, or give you a moderate loan, to buy a playstation with low upfront costs... to just list some of the bigger ones: affirm, afterpay, klarna, paypal, zip, bread, upstart, albert, withcherry, etc... there are SO many of these.
[hidden]
This is a drop in the bucket, blame component surges (not to mention shortages and orders getting cancelled/trimmed) plus GTA 6.
[hidden]
the PS5 at its launch price was best game PC price/performance, with super fast storage, keyboard and mouse support and more
but the keyboard & mouse support is locked by DEVs and only a handful titles support it. a very limited 3rd party app store it could have been the steam box on steriods, alas not so.
at end of the day, buying a PS5 allows you to do with your hardware what you want, be it play games on your console or create a super computer cluster with your PS3 consoles running linux.
[2 comments hidden]
They will all go full streaming the moment they can possibly get away with it anyway, the same as everyone else in all fields.
And when they do, what do you care anyway? Your argument is to just eat what you're given, so you can still just "buy a console and play ganes". If anything the console will be even cheaper and in more supply then.
I see no valid argument anywhere in here and I think you need to think up some better excuses to justify being mad at people who have done nothing to you. This attempt to make a peeing in the pool, ruining it for everyone argument doesn't hold any water.
Maybe you work Sony and that's why you have any opinion at all about what other people are doing with their own property? And even literally presume to tell them what to do and not do with it?
You attempt to criticize anyone elses proper civil upright behavior when you're doing THAT? Those maniac criminals hacking their own ps5's at least only hacked their own. They didn't try to tell you you had to hack yours.
[hidden]
Try building a PC for 500£ and getting similar AAA gaming experience.
[5 comments hidden]
[10 comments hidden]
Yesterday's news on the mathematics breakthroughs were a foregone conclusion - there is a lot of hidden overlap between it and RE. RE is just the more obscure of the two, but among my circle of peers, many people have already undertaken (and succeeded) at very ambitious projects. Obvious standouts are things like Modern Warfare which gets mentioned because it is highly popular, but many games have already been reversed by the quiet majority.
I don't see many options for PS/Nintendo. Some form of bespoke-hardware-based lockdown reminiscent of the Cell processor, perhaps. But that is a lot of R&D to spend on something like this. Will have to wait and see.
So, what to make of this? Machines of the future or stochastic parrots? Of course. I'll take two.
[6 comments hidden]
[2 comments hidden]
[3 comments hidden]
Basically, the reality that allowed the IBM PC clone market to happen and democratize computers for the masses doesn't exist anymore.
[2 comments hidden]
[hidden]
> the DMCA abolishes personal property so long as it contains electronics
i think this is a good distinction: electronic _personal property_ is basically abolished while _private property_ (aka means of production) is strengthened and protected.it really goes to show the balance of influence where law is used basically say 'corporations > people' (and this isn't the first time), which begs the question do we even live in a 'democracy' if thats the norm?
[2 comments hidden]
[hidden]
[hidden]
A swarm of humans with frontier models could probably rebuild many mobile games in a month. Only limiting factor is the lawyers. I’m somewhat surprised the models don’t have guardrails for this. They probably will soon enough, but by then the Chinese models will be good enough to do it. The dream is to have local models that can do it.
[hidden]
[9 comments hidden]
[hidden]
[hidden]
The PS5 (and its Xbox counterpart) is more-or-less just a modern budget gaming PC with a little bit of special sauce. The only advantage here is that component pricing may have been locked in before the RAM crisis.
[hidden]
[hidden]
So, if you buy a PS5 now, you should be good
[2 comments hidden]
[hidden]
[hidden]
[10 comments hidden]
[hidden]
[4 comments hidden]
[2 comments hidden]
edit: I looked up some figures and the numbers had a brief dip in 2022 but are continually increasing since. So I would say, games are being played and rising still.
[hidden]
Of course and perfect example of that is the existential crisis of Hollywood. Video games aggressively outpace traditional cinema in revenue, cultural relevance, and audience time and Hollywood can't really do anything with that.
GTA V hit $1B in 3 days. GTA VI will be even bigger than that, probably the biggest entertainmant product launch ever.
akmarinov[47 comments hidden]
nalekberov[18 comments hidden]
Not all software, obviously. Apple is notoriously good at producing "black box" products.
madeofpalk[6 comments hidden]
lolpython[5 comments hidden]
rfgplk[4 comments hidden]
queenkjuul[2 comments hidden]
MrDrMcCoy[hidden]
akmarinov[hidden]
brookst[11 comments hidden]
Runtime modification and replacement is limited by hardware root of trust, but for sheer source inspection I don’t think they’re special. What products are you thinking about?
dghlsakjg[6 comments hidden]
burgerone[3 comments hidden]
officeplant[2 comments hidden]
brookst[hidden]
Reverse engineering means taking the finished product apart to understand how it works. For software, that means getting back to a source code that could be compiled, so you have the architecture and constants and API calls and all that.
brookst[2 comments hidden]
dghlsakjg[hidden]
It’s a direct response to your question.
nalekberov[4 comments hidden]
On PS5 it's done in couple of seconds.
akmarinov[hidden]
brookst[2 comments hidden]
nalekberov[hidden]
frevib[4 comments hidden]
pton_xd[2 comments hidden]
akmarinov[hidden]
KetoManx64[hidden]
ashleyn[16 comments hidden]
At some point, boycott will be consumers' only viable move. Legislation is urgently needed here imo.
threetonesun[9 comments hidden]
ashleyn[8 comments hidden]
Online purchases in some fashion are delivered to you and put on your hard disk. You can in theory preserve the game or reverse engineer it when its constituent parts have to be delivered to you.
akmarinov[2 comments hidden]
bathtub365[hidden]
threetonesun[4 comments hidden]
yummypaint[hidden]
bathtub365[2 comments hidden]
BlueTemplar[hidden]
BlueTemplar[hidden]
Online-only DRM is bad yeah, but with sufficient effort it can be sidestepped : see the unofficial WoW servers.
Meanwhile game streaming is extremely resource heavy, needs rock solid Internet connections, and runs into laws of physics for latency issues. But more games will probably go this route, yeah, especially those targeting players of specific (high) wealth brackets. (Boycott them, just like other online-only DRM.)
evanjrowley[hidden]
63stack[hidden]
joshspankit[4 comments hidden]
Multiplayer will still have a moat, but even that is in trouble as cheats will be created by hundreds of thousands of players using AI
BlueTemplar[3 comments hidden]
joshspankit[2 comments hidden]
BlueTemplar[hidden]
undersuit[hidden]
plastic-enjoyer[3 comments hidden]
akmarinov[hidden]
vuurmot[hidden]
TimTheTinker[hidden]
- reverse-engineered a Mac AppStore menubar ppp (using Ghidra), modernized its UI, and added support for Apple Silicon. It took about 90 minutes running in the background.
- created faithful macOS ports of ~7 classic 68k Macintosh games via 68k disasm tools Claude wrote for itself; most are now written in Swift, with MacToolbox routines reimplemented (one exception: MS Flight Simulator 1.02 worked better as a plain C and SDL2 app, since it has a hand-authored bytecode interpreter in 68k assembly and draws the entire UI itself)
All it takes is a goal with nearly 100% specificity
CuriouslyC[2 comments hidden]
Foxhuls[hidden]
billypilgrim[hidden]